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we don't know much about belcher's mental statement or if there was brain injury involved. should the nfl discourage players from owning firearms? >> this is such a sad day and sad story. and i applaud costas. i don't think enough voices can be raised against this gun ownership. but the problem you have is number one, they shouldn't have played the game. that shows you that the priorities are off from day one. they should not have played that game. once again, the money wins out. obviously, i think you have to discourage people from carrying guns. and particularly in the national football league, with everything that's going on about the clear connection now between mental health and brain damage and erratic behavior exacerbated and probably one of the most violent games on earth, romeo crennel that belcher was a leader and one of the first guys in drills. we didn't see this coming. and that's the problem. number one, they are not trained to see it coming. the gun lobby is just so overwhelming. i think that if athletes, for example, who if they are looking for a civil right
we don't know much about belcher's mental statement or if there was brain injury involved. should the nfl discourage players from owning firearms? >> this is such a sad day and sad story. and i applaud costas. i don't think enough voices can be raised against this gun ownership. but the problem you have is number one, they shouldn't have played the game. that shows you that the priorities are off from day one. they should not have played that game. once again, the money wins out....
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belcher and his girlfriend? i don't know.l i know is that it the statistics from single parenthood and children out of wedlock and what happens to kids in those circumstances, what happens to the fathers in those circumstances. it's not good. >> dana: an degreia, i'm a believer in the institution of marriage to solidify families and root you in a grounded, make it possibly tradition and hopefully be prosperous in the future. there is a lot, there are many babies born out of wedlock. all across america. and all races. in particular, in african-american families and growing in hispanic and white families as well. do you think it has anything do with how people end up committing crimes like this? and not able to deal with the success he earned? >> andrea: i think there is a family element to certain things. maybe the way he was raised or how he wasn't raised. maybe he wasn't taught right from wrong. i have a hard time buying this. this is a total argument. a but-for argument. but for the family he would haven't don
belcher and his girlfriend? i don't know.l i know is that it the statistics from single parenthood and children out of wedlock and what happens to kids in those circumstances, what happens to the fathers in those circumstances. it's not good. >> dana: an degreia, i'm a believer in the institution of marriage to solidify families and root you in a grounded, make it possibly tradition and hopefully be prosperous in the future. there is a lot, there are many babies born out of wedlock. all...
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if javon belcher didn't possess a gun, he and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> poignant words. what should this country do in response? joining me to debate what is certainly a matter of life and death to so many people is david copel, research director at the independence institute. on the other side is josh horowitz, executive director of the coalition to stop gun violence. welcome to you both. david, let me ask you, i suppose an obvious question, why did jovan belcher need a high powered hand gun? >> well, he didn't need any hand gun to kill, to murder his wife and leave the poor baby as an orphan. o.j. simpson showed that football players like lots of other domestic abusers, can kill people with their bare hands. >> right, but why does anybody in america need either a hand gun or high powered assault weapon? i don't understand. explain to me. >> i don't think the police have released what kind of hand gun he owned. do you know what kind he owned? why are you calling it a high powered hand gun? >> well, i'm assuming most hand guns are high powered, right? >> so you ca
if javon belcher didn't possess a gun, he and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> poignant words. what should this country do in response? joining me to debate what is certainly a matter of life and death to so many people is david copel, research director at the independence institute. on the other side is josh horowitz, executive director of the coalition to stop gun violence. welcome to you both. david, let me ask you, i suppose an obvious question, why did jovan belcher...
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there were knives and he got away with it. >> belcher was a rich football player. if you ban handguns with anybody, if he wants to kill somebody with a gun he will get one. >> that's a good point. bill, what is costas' solution for this? if this football player didn't have a gun they would be alive. what is he suggesting? what kind of ban would you do to prevent -- is it no wealthy aggressive football players can have guns? he is calling for a total gun ban. >> no aggressive football players. only the kickers. those are the only ones allowed to have them. >> that's true. they drink a lot i think. >> i like costas, but this was neither the time nor the place. they have to understand something, political statements are not for them. they are for the fans. the fans are the only ones eloquent enough to say stuff. the fan with the sign that says "kill all refs" and the fan with the cape and nothing but a cape holding up the" january 3:-- "john 3:16" and they can make comments because they paid a lot of money to be there. >> someone compared the nra to the kkk. >> come o
there were knives and he got away with it. >> belcher was a rich football player. if you ban handguns with anybody, if he wants to kill somebody with a gun he will get one. >> that's a good point. bill, what is costas' solution for this? if this football player didn't have a gun they would be alive. what is he suggesting? what kind of ban would you do to prevent -- is it no wealthy aggressive football players can have guns? he is calling for a total gun ban. >> no aggressive...
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belcher who lose control. and you cannot disarm the entire american population to combat madness. it would be madness to even try that the past 10 years increase in the number of handguns in america. there may be 100 million of them in circulation right now. but there has been a decrease in handgun crime. 10 years ago about 7,000 handgun murders. last year the number was 6,000 it is quite understandable that people are reacting emotionally to this terrible crime in kansas city. but the problem america has is not law abiding citizens possessing weapons. that's not damaging the nation. crimes committed with handguns and out-of-control people that's what's hurting the u.s.a. you will never stop crimes of madness, you are never going to stop them like the kansas city situation. you can put violent criminals away for a long time if they use a gun during the commission of a crime. and that should be done. that's the memo. now for the top story tonight reaction. joining us from washington mary catherine ham and juan williams from washington. where am i going wrong, juan. >> you said peop
belcher who lose control. and you cannot disarm the entire american population to combat madness. it would be madness to even try that the past 10 years increase in the number of handguns in america. there may be 100 million of them in circulation right now. but there has been a decrease in handgun crime. 10 years ago about 7,000 handgun murders. last year the number was 6,000 it is quite understandable that people are reacting emotionally to this terrible crime in kansas city. but the problem...
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jovan belcher killed her. >> bob: i see. right. >> kimberly: greg? >> greg: if it was a deadly flood it would be the same saying we need to been a water. he is a hypocritical buffoon. he spends his life wondering in and out of the new york buildings flanked by people who are armed. he doesn't have to have a gun because he is protected by people with guns. he is a sanctimonious ghoul. when something comes up, he has to come up. pay attention to me. this is about scoring points with other people in media. same with whitlock, who is a chucklehead. this guy in the knickss when he was talking about jeremy lin played off a stereotypical deficiency i'm not even going to get in to. who refers to the nra as kkk. he is a bigot. apologize for that. >> bob: what is a ghoul? >> greg: somebody uses tragedy to build himself up. he is a hypocrite. because he doesn't worry about being armed. people are armed for him. we live in a building right now, we work atuilding right now, where everybody has a gun outside. we're lucky. the rest of the public doesn't. >> bob: er
jovan belcher killed her. >> bob: i see. right. >> kimberly: greg? >> greg: if it was a deadly flood it would be the same saying we need to been a water. he is a hypocritical buffoon. he spends his life wondering in and out of the new york buildings flanked by people who are armed. he doesn't have to have a gun because he is protected by people with guns. he is a sanctimonious ghoul. when something comes up, he has to come up. pay attention to me. this is about scoring points...
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their 3-month-old daughter and belcher's own mother. he then drove to work where he met with his head coach and general manager and thanked them for all they had done for him, then he went out in their parking lot, saw police approaching, and shot himself in the head. football being football and by that, of course, i mean football being big business, the game, and by that i mean the big business must go on and so, of course, the kansas city chiefs played their money making game the next day. the football business was hoping that tv football commentators would ignore the biggest thing that happened in football this weekend. but bob costas could not. >> in the aftermath of the nearly unfathomable events in kansas city, the mindless sports cliches was heard yet again. something like this really puts it all in perspective. well, if so, that sort of perspective has a very short shelf life since we will inevitably hear about the perspective that we regained the next time ugly reality intrudes upon our games. please, those who need tragedies t
their 3-month-old daughter and belcher's own mother. he then drove to work where he met with his head coach and general manager and thanked them for all they had done for him, then he went out in their parking lot, saw police approaching, and shot himself in the head. football being football and by that, of course, i mean football being big business, the game, and by that i mean the big business must go on and so, of course, the kansas city chiefs played their money making game the next day....
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the murder suicide of jovan belcher has started the fire storm. >> in the coming days, belcher's actions and their possible connection to football will be analyzed. who knows? but here, wrote jason whitlock, is what i believe. if belcher didn't possess a gun, he and perkins would both be alive today. > >> greta: costas was quoting jason whitlock. immediately after he spoke, twitter blowing up with reaction. herman cain tweeting you tune in to a football game and listen to bob costas spewing sang t sancts drek. >> where are we headed? bob costas deserves to be fired for these remarks. >> he's allowed to have his opinion. yes, he's allowed to go there. >> we want to ban guns because the gun kills the person, not the person pulling the trigger. >> you want to get a political lecture by the rantings on the left, i suggest that bob costas could have worked for msnbc. >> jason whitlock's right. if there's no gun here, nobody's dead. i don't know what the issue is to take issue with. >> i don't get the sense he was calling for specific legislation or saying here's what we should do. >> how come
the murder suicide of jovan belcher has started the fire storm. >> in the coming days, belcher's actions and their possible connection to football will be analyzed. who knows? but here, wrote jason whitlock, is what i believe. if belcher didn't possess a gun, he and perkins would both be alive today. > >> greta: costas was quoting jason whitlock. immediately after he spoke, twitter blowing up with reaction. herman cain tweeting you tune in to a football game and listen to bob...
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let me go back to javn belcher. >> police say belcher turned a gun on perkins in the home that they share with their 3-month-old daughter. the child was spared. the player then went to the stadium, thanked his coaches for believing in him and then shot himself as they watched in horror. >> cenk: were guns a factor in this shooting? of course, of course! of course they were. he shot her nine times. he shot himself as well. but not in the ultimate reality that the conservatives live in. they're reacting not at him but at bob costas. here is ted nugent. we thought bob costas was smarter than that. only fools blame tools instead of human failings. shame, bob. this guy talking about shame. remember ted nugent was the rocker who crapped in his pants to get out of vietnam. that embarrassment, that pitiful excuse and you talk about shame. you walked around in your own waste for a week, you coward. shame. then we weapon "g" to matt yoder whoyo--then we go to matt yoder so that's the place where people might pay attention to it. so don't ever talk about it, a when people are paying attention, and b
let me go back to javn belcher. >> police say belcher turned a gun on perkins in the home that they share with their 3-month-old daughter. the child was spared. the player then went to the stadium, thanked his coaches for believing in him and then shot himself as they watched in horror. >> cenk: were guns a factor in this shooting? of course, of course! of course they were. he shot her nine times. he shot himself as well. but not in the ultimate reality that the conservatives live...
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one of belcher's friends tells a sports blog called dead spin after game last month belcher was dazed and couldn't remember what had happened the day before or at least before the game. steve brown is on fox top story. is he live in our midwest bureau tonight. what sort of signs of trouble before this shooting? anything? >> about the allegations that belcher had had head trauma or concussions, both the team and the league said there is no concussion history that they have on this man. and that he was never held out of a game because of a concussion. about the relationship between belcher and perkins, fox 4 our affiliate in kansas city spoke with friends and said saturday morning there was an argument and over her late return from a concert. and then the shots were fired. it really didn't make any sense to belcher's family. his aunt lives in the kansas city area. she read this statement for cameras today: we will cherish the wonderful memories we of have of javon and pray that those memories bring us peace as we grapple to understand the unpredictable end of his life and the life of ca
one of belcher's friends tells a sports blog called dead spin after game last month belcher was dazed and couldn't remember what had happened the day before or at least before the game. steve brown is on fox top story. is he live in our midwest bureau tonight. what sort of signs of trouble before this shooting? anything? >> about the allegations that belcher had had head trauma or concussions, both the team and the league said there is no concussion history that they have on this man. and...
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. >> reporter: relatives of kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher speaking out today trying to make sense of this tragedy. >> we are overwhelmed with both sadness and confusion. >> reporter: belcher shot and killed his girlfriend, kasandra perkins, saturday. tonight her family releasing this statement saying "please keep us in your hearts and prayers, as well as the belcher family, for two lives were lost." and here inside the chiefs' practice facility, you can see his locker is still filled with all of his gear. the team says they don't know when or if his locker will be cleared out this season. the incident reignited the gun control debate. sportscaster bob costas taking a stand on sunday night football. >> if jovan belcher didn't possess a gun, he and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> reporter: today chiefs head coach, romeo crennel, who witnessed belcher's suicide, added his voice. >> all i know is a player with a gun and i know it's not a good thing. >> reporter: but what drove belcher to kill? was it a head injury, so common in football, or was this another t
. >> reporter: relatives of kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher speaking out today trying to make sense of this tragedy. >> we are overwhelmed with both sadness and confusion. >> reporter: belcher shot and killed his girlfriend, kasandra perkins, saturday. tonight her family releasing this statement saying "please keep us in your hearts and prayers, as well as the belcher family, for two lives were lost." and here inside the chiefs' practice facility, you can...
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we have confirmed, now, that jovan belcher use the one gun to kill his girlfriend and another gun to kill himself. as you said earlier we have finally confirmed that he did, in fact, shoot kasandra perkins nine times before going to the stadium and shooting himself. >>shepard: thank yous -- thank you, trace. and agencies are reporting that the head coach of the badgers in wisconsin has been stolen away by the university of arkansas is going to arkansas to fill that series of weird vacancies they were dealing with in arkansas, leaving wisconsin badgers and going to arkansas. >> identity thieves could be trying to get their hands on your tabs return, a sharp increase in the number of scanners filing fraudulent returns. science and technology editor is with us now. it looks like they have stolen tens of thousands of people's refunds. >>guest: potentially billions. part of the problem, is identifying that there is a problem. the i.r.s. says they do not know the extent of the problem and it is hard if them to track and identify that something like this is happening. >>shepard: explain wha
we have confirmed, now, that jovan belcher use the one gun to kill his girlfriend and another gun to kill himself. as you said earlier we have finally confirmed that he did, in fact, shoot kasandra perkins nine times before going to the stadium and shooting himself. >>shepard: thank yous -- thank you, trace. and agencies are reporting that the head coach of the badgers in wisconsin has been stolen away by the university of arkansas is going to arkansas to fill that series of weird...
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first up tragedy in the nfl after kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher murdered his girlfriend before shooting and killing himself. as a result, the gun control debate back in the spotlight but with more gun regulation actually have made any difference at all? here now is deputy editor of think progress.org and nationally syndicated radio talk show host. lars i'm a second amendment guy. to me guns don't kill people crazy people shooting guns kill people. would a gun regulation have stopped this tragedy? >> only one kind of gun regulation would have stopped this and that would be to gut the second amendment and i don't think igor can reject that. 20,000 laws around the country regulate guns at the state, federal and local level. those laws sometimes are forced a and sometimes not. this young man there was no reason legally to deny him the ownership of a firearm. so the suggestion by bob costas who ought to be fired for the comments, his outrageous suggestion that the civil rights of americans all 300 million of us should be taken away and we should be denied the right to own a g
first up tragedy in the nfl after kansas city chiefs linebacker jovan belcher murdered his girlfriend before shooting and killing himself. as a result, the gun control debate back in the spotlight but with more gun regulation actually have made any difference at all? here now is deputy editor of think progress.org and nationally syndicated radio talk show host. lars i'm a second amendment guy. to me guns don't kill people crazy people shooting guns kill people. would a gun regulation have...
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saturday was not the person who jovan belcher was. he was incredibly passionate, loving individual. he enjoyed everything he did. i'll always remember him with a smile on his face. he had a huge smile, great smile, infectious smile. excuse me. that's the picture that i have of him. he cared. he loved, had such a big heart. loved so many people. and the feeling was mutual. he was loved by so many. it's an incredible tragedy and very difficult to come to grips with. >> it's difficult for many people to come to grips with. because everybody says oh, there was no history of domestic violence in his past. but there are reports out there that he did have one experience while he was at maine. do you know about that? where he became so angry, he put his fist through a wall or glass window? >> he -- there was an incident with -- where he did put his fist through a window. to me it was our freshman year. he was 18 or 19 years old. i always credited that to an immature decision, a decision that i actually have another friend who has done the sam
saturday was not the person who jovan belcher was. he was incredibly passionate, loving individual. he enjoyed everything he did. i'll always remember him with a smile on his face. he had a huge smile, great smile, infectious smile. excuse me. that's the picture that i have of him. he cared. he loved, had such a big heart. loved so many people. and the feeling was mutual. he was loved by so many. it's an incredible tragedy and very difficult to come to grips with. >> it's difficult for...
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. >>> the family of jovan belcher is speaking publically for the first time since he fatally shot his girl friend and killed himself. belcher's sister and uncle stood by his aunt as she spoke outside the home where the football star lived with 22-year-old kasandra perkins and their 3-month-old daughter. >> we will cherish the wonderful memories we have of javon and pray those memory also bring us peace as we grapple to understand the unpredictable and tragic ending of his life and the life of kasandra perkins. >> kansas city police confirm that the gun used by belcher was purchased legally. belcher's mother has been given temporary custody of the couple's daughter, zoe. >> a picture of suspect george zimmerman released by his attorney reportedly taken by a police officer the night zimmerman shot and killed martin. the bloody picture itself is not new, but the fact it's a high resolution color photo is. zimmerman's attorney says it gives the case more context. >> is it devastating? no. but it's just one piece of evidence that shows what george was going through that night and why he re
. >>> the family of jovan belcher is speaking publically for the first time since he fatally shot his girl friend and killed himself. belcher's sister and uncle stood by his aunt as she spoke outside the home where the football star lived with 22-year-old kasandra perkins and their 3-month-old daughter. >> we will cherish the wonderful memories we have of javon and pray those memory also bring us peace as we grapple to understand the unpredictable and tragic ending of his life...
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we have disturbing new details in the murder-suicide case of nfl player jovan belcher. police tell "the kansas city star" that belcher's mother saw him kiss his girlfriend on the forehead saying he was sorry. seconds after he shot her on saturday. he also kissed his baby daughter and apologized to his own mother. >> kansas city police say belcher legally owned the handgun that he used to kill kasandra perkins and then himself there. are no official numbers, but some players and coaches say 50% to 90% of nfl players own guns. jim axelrod looks at why athletes and firearms go together so often. >> i'm 21 years old, i have a lot of money in one pocket and a gun in the other pocket and i'm saying please leave me alone. >> reporter: this is former pro football player marcellus wiley, a gun control advocate speaking three years ago at the brady center about why he used to carry a gun. >> i remember taking the same gun to the nightclubs, to the restaurants where i would go eat. not to be a villain, but just really in a warped sense of mind, an identity trying to protect myself
we have disturbing new details in the murder-suicide case of nfl player jovan belcher. police tell "the kansas city star" that belcher's mother saw him kiss his girlfriend on the forehead saying he was sorry. seconds after he shot her on saturday. he also kissed his baby daughter and apologized to his own mother. >> kansas city police say belcher legally owned the handgun that he used to kill kasandra perkins and then himself there. are no official numbers, but some players and...
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if jo vai belcher did not possea hand gun, he and ca sa cassandrr perkins would both be alive today. >> sean: many reports are emerging that the nfl player was suffering from repeated head injuries as well as painkiller addiction all of which would make costas' comments sound more premature, absurd, and opportunistic. here with reaction is eric rush, leo terrell. leo. sosomebody is hell bent on killg season. you're friends with o.j. simpson. he was found liable in the civil case. there was no gun used. somebody's hell bent on killing somebody, leo, they don't need a gun to do it. they can figure out a whole host of ways to kill somebody. >> i anticipate you'll use the simpson case. shame on you. first of all, bob costas is an award winning journalism. he doesn't need any type of platform. he has credibility. he gave social commentary. >> you don't need a gun to kill somebody. >> you know what? gun control is an issue where guns are in the hands of people in the urban community and guns -- soi-- >> sean: was nicole brown simpson killed with a gun or a knife? >> this is a commentary of
if jo vai belcher did not possea hand gun, he and ca sa cassandrr perkins would both be alive today. >> sean: many reports are emerging that the nfl player was suffering from repeated head injuries as well as painkiller addiction all of which would make costas' comments sound more premature, absurd, and opportunistic. here with reaction is eric rush, leo terrell. leo. sosomebody is hell bent on killg season. you're friends with o.j. simpson. he was found liable in the civil case. there...
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quarterback jovan belcher killed his girlfriend -- then turned the gun on himself. that's ahead at 5-30. remember that quarterback controversy - it's not fan base may be more split the niners loss a deadly home invasion in a wealthy silicon valley suburb. this is video from sky- 7 h-d, abc news. tonight -- police say, the killers are on the loose --- kron4's there live. republicans back and fourth j. r. stone joins us. >> this this is for the 66 year-old was found murdered directly behind me. the gates, it is is a bit dark and family members are here. they have chosen not to talk. dealing with a very difficult time let me show you the video. they have been combing through evidence where they believe that this was all happening on friday morning, 1:00 a.m. this is video from sky 7 up a definition video. showing the crime scene. this fact, was one time it big in the cell phone industry the victim. and even owned a mountain winery. in the 1990's he was a businessman. perhaps there was a personal grudge associated they're still trying to figure out if he was targeted. >
quarterback jovan belcher killed his girlfriend -- then turned the gun on himself. that's ahead at 5-30. remember that quarterback controversy - it's not fan base may be more split the niners loss a deadly home invasion in a wealthy silicon valley suburb. this is video from sky- 7 h-d, abc news. tonight -- police say, the killers are on the loose --- kron4's there live. republicans back and fourth j. r. stone joins us. >> this this is for the 66 year-old was found murdered directly behind...
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. >>> also this half hour, the latest on the jovan belcher tragedy. the people closest to the nfl linebacker and the girlfriend he killed are speaking out now about the shocking murder suicide. we are also going to talk about a report that came in, "the new york post"over night, that gave details to what he was doing hours before the murder. very, very interesting. >>> later this half hour, magic man, our polkameister, sitting down with penn jillette to talk about harry houdini, magic, and familia. >>> kate middleton spending a second day in the london hospital and prince william has been at his pregnant wife's side as she is treated for severe morning sickness. >> the palace ended speculation about the duchess yesterday, confirming she is expecting. abc's nick schifrin joining us live from london. good morning, nick. >> reporter: good morning, paula. good morning, rob. what an exciting morning it is here. kates had her belly stared at, her every action scrutinized since the wedding, and now all of those people who have been incorrectly guessing she w
. >>> also this half hour, the latest on the jovan belcher tragedy. the people closest to the nfl linebacker and the girlfriend he killed are speaking out now about the shocking murder suicide. we are also going to talk about a report that came in, "the new york post"over night, that gave details to what he was doing hours before the murder. very, very interesting. >>> later this half hour, magic man, our polkameister, sitting down with penn jillette to talk about...
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si also reporting that belcher had been drinking. let me play something for you. this is belcher's aunt, she is speaking to reporters outside the couple's kansas city home. >> we will cherish the wonderful memories we have of jovan and pray that those memories will bring us peace as we grapple to understand the unpredictable and tragic ending of his life and the life of ckasandra perkins. >>> we continue on hour two. i'm brooke baldwin. thank you for being with me. the question we are asking is this. is bashar al assad bluffing as fears grow that his regime will unleash chemical weapons in his country of syria? we're digging on what the syrian gas would do and where it's coming from. but first, there is a little bit of everything going on in washington, d.c. right now. you have your holiday parties, couple of press conferences, maybe even a little political posturing. one thing not happening is formal face to face serious talks on the looming fiscal cliff. but, hey, there is still 28 days until a huge package of tax hikes and spending cuts kicks in. our senior con
si also reporting that belcher had been drinking. let me play something for you. this is belcher's aunt, she is speaking to reporters outside the couple's kansas city home. >> we will cherish the wonderful memories we have of jovan and pray that those memories will bring us peace as we grapple to understand the unpredictable and tragic ending of his life and the life of ckasandra perkins. >>> we continue on hour two. i'm brooke baldwin. thank you for being with me. the question...
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same thing with this murder suicide, jason belcher -- javon belcher. right, murder, suicide tragic case. but you can talk about again any aspect of it. were there head injuries involved you know, was she out partying, got home too late. did he crack? were there any signs? but you cannot mention the gun right? you cannot -- according to nra it is never never never never, never okay to mention. virginia tech, you can't mention there was a gun involved. it is ridiculous. the nra is so much powerful. clearly the most powerful lobbying. >> with the republican party. >> bill: they own the republican party. 1-866-55-press. covering the waterfront here with think progress and igor volsky here on the "full court press" this morning. join the conversation at -- commenting on anything we've been talking about at 1-866-55-press. >> announcer: this is the "bill press show." in their positions. i want them to have the data and i want them to have the passion. come away armed with facts and the arguments to feel confident in their positions. i want them to have the d
same thing with this murder suicide, jason belcher -- javon belcher. right, murder, suicide tragic case. but you can talk about again any aspect of it. were there head injuries involved you know, was she out partying, got home too late. did he crack? were there any signs? but you cannot mention the gun right? you cannot -- according to nra it is never never never never, never okay to mention. virginia tech, you can't mention there was a gun involved. it is ridiculous. the nra is so much...